Financial Times Interview, Rachel Morarjee, ‘Coffee with the FT: His Highness the Aga Khan’ (London, United Kingdom) ·· incomplete
- Categories: Aga Khan Fund for Economic Dev (AKFED) ·· Aga Khan IV ·· Current Affairs (Afghanistan) ·· Development Strategies ·· Economics & Development ·· History (Political) ·· Incomplete ·· Interviews ·· Published ·· United Kingdom
“If you try to put social development ahead of economic support, it doesn’t work. You have to do both together. A community whose economics don’t change is not one that can support community structures, education, healthcare, it doesn’t have the wherewithal.”
I ask whether he thinks this long-term view is key to his success and he says that many projects can take 25 years to come to fruition. He cites a hospital in Pakistan that now produces world class doctors a quarter of a century after it opened. It would be hard to find Western donors who would remain with a project for that long.
INCOMPLETE: We regret that from this interview, only limited portions made public by the reporter are available below. We would be very grateful if any of our readers who may have the complete transcript would kindly share it with us. Please click here for information on making submissions to NanoWisdoms; we thank you for your assistance.
Interviewer: Rachel Morarjee
… Tall, in a grey suit and a burgundy tie, the Aga Khan, 71, would blend seamlessly into a crowd of London commuters. He welcomes me with a smile and says, acknowledging our tricky discussions about this interview: “Not breakfast, not lunch, not dinner, but coffee. What would you like to drink?” …
I met the Aga Khan twice during my three-year stint as a reporter for the FT in Afghanistan so I am used to the atmosphere of stiff formality that surrounds him. After 51 years, he is presumably used to it too…. I feel slightly on show now, as there are a lot of people crowded into the room with us. There is a Paris-based PR man, an older Ismaili man and, most disconcertingly of all, a young woman with a notepad, poised to write down everything I say.
The Aga Khan wears a suit even when he’s travelling and working in Islamic countries. It’s not a look that we are used to seeing on Muslim spiritual leaders, so I decide to start by asking whether his clothing attracts criticism in the Muslim world. The woman with the notepad starts scribbling furiously. Uh-oh, I think, and I get the question thrown back to me:
You have lived in a Muslim country. Are you aware of any requirement for an Imam to wear a particular type of clothing? There are traditions but are you aware of any theological requirement?
I ask again, and this time the Aga Khan replies:
I have never sensed that as a problem. Imams in sub-Saharan Africa dress differently than Imams in the Middle East, who dress differently from Imams in central Asia.
He adds that for ceremonial occasions, he wears a traditional robe and Astrakhan hat — a look favoured by Afghan President Hamid Karzai….
I ask him how he reconciles such great wealth with having so many impoverished followers in many parts of the developing world.
Well, I think first of all you have to reposition the statement about having great wealth. I would say, frankly, that’s nonsense (he says smiling emphatically).
… Although Aga Khan III was only 5ft 5in, he tipped the scales at 220lb and the donations added up to $125,000 — a vast fortune in 1936. The ceremony of sitting on the scales with the gold made a great impression on the British public at the time. “In the West, this was seen as some sort of fantastic ceremonial, and this was because India at the time was ceremonial.” The current Aga Khan did not have to endure anything like this during his own golden jubilee celebrations during 2007 and 2008, not least because the 1930s gold made a solid bedrock for investments.
Ismailis have also traditionally paid a tithe to their Imams. The Aga Khan tells me that money raised by Ismaili followers does not end up in his pocket.
There is a great difference between wealth which comes from the faith and is used for the faith and personal wealth used for the individual. The Imam has responsibility for significant resources but they in no way cover the needs we have, and never will.
The Aga Khan inherited shares in corporations, banks, trusts and oil from his grandfather in 1957 and, over the past five decades, he has built a vast business development network by investing in poor and conflict-torn parts of the globe. He is the key shareholder in many of the projects but his profits are reinvested in the businesses, which are often run by members of the Ismaili community. He began with newspaper investments in east Africa in the 1960s and now runs investment ventures tightly linked to development work that funds schools, hospitals and architectural projects.
In Afghanistan, I saw how the success of the Aga Khan’s projects stood in contrast to the bumbling efforts of many Western governments. He owns stakes in the country’s largest telephone network, and a five-star hotel but has also renovated ancient mosques, gardens and citadels as well as running educational and agricultural projects. The Aga Khan says he sees his role as a venture capitalist who specialises in difficult environments, laying the foundations of projects to entice other investors. The Geneva-based Aga Khan Fund for Economic Development (AKFED) runs more than 90 for-profit businesses and employs 36,000 people.
There is no point going into economies that are wealthy and have their own resources, so we go into the really poor ones. If you try to put social development ahead of economic support, it doesn’t work. You have to do both together. A community whose economics don’t change is not one that can support community structures, education, healthcare, it doesn’t have the wherewithal.
The Aga Khan uses a lot of the same jargon used by development workers, mentioning “human resources” and “capacity building”. I am familiar with this way of talking from my time in Kabul but have always felt it a shame that it means that speakers often convey nothing of the real excitement involved in seeing a project take off and become an independent success.
His profits are reinvested in the AKFED businesses and the rest is paid in dividends to the other joint venture partners. These include private equity firm Blackstone, which has co-invested in a hydroelectric damn in Uganda, and Swedish telecoms group TeliaSonera, which holds a stake in Afghanistan’s largest telephone network,
Roshan has gone from strength to strength, its mobile business bolstered by the fact that it is impossible to lay landlines in a country so laced with landmines. But his five-star Serena Hotel in Kabul has attracted criticism for its opulence in a city where most people don’t have electricity and running water.
“The nature of what we do is high-risk,” the Aga Khan says, with characteristic understatement. I ask whether he thinks this long-term view is key to his success and he says that many projects can take 25 years to come to fruition. He cites a hospital in Pakistan that now produces world class doctors a quarter of a century after it opened. It would be hard to find Western donors who would remain with a project for that long.
During his 51 years as Imam, he has watched the collapse of the Soviet Union, which brought Ismaili communities in central Asia back into contact with the outside world, as well as the rise of militant Islam. “Communities like the Ismailis don’t live in a vacuum,” he notes, saying that his job as Imam is to think carefully about how to address the problems in the societies his followers call home. The Ismaili diaspora is almost as widespread as the Jewish one.
I wonder whether he sees the clash between Islam and the West as the most serious global problem. “I’m unwilling to say that in these major issues today faith has been the prime driver. In my view it’s political issues that have been the prime driver,” he says. I ask whether that means they need political solutions. “Bang on,” he replies.
He believes ignorance about Islam in the West is a huge problem. “The Islamic world as an important part of our globe has really been absent from Judeo-Christian education in a strange way,” he says, asking how anyone can be considered properly educated in the West when they know nothing about Islam.
We have to finish, so I ask what he thinks his legacy will be, which provokes laughter and the response that he doesn’t have the faintest idea.
As I switch off the tape recorder and prepare to leave, he visibly relaxes and begins talking about Afghanistan in a far more open way, reminiscing about the Mujahideen leaders he knew during the country’s civil war. We step out into the roof garden, where running water blocks out the roar of traffic. The peace lasts only a moment — the Aga Khan always has more meetings — and I have to go in search of lunch.
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